I got a call on Wednesday from my crazy ex-girlfriend. When I saw her name flash up on my cell phone at 8:00 in the morning I flashed on the past month and all the arguments and harsh words. Earlier this week we had some of the nastiest arguments yet. But I answered the call.
She chatted with me amiably. All the rancor of recent weeks was gone. In fact, the converstation was so innocuous that I couldn’t figure out why she was calling.
Eventually she mentioned that she wanted to get something that she had left in my room when she moved out. Finally, I thought, she’s gotten to the point of the call.
But as they say in the American infomercials, ‘But wait! There’s more!’.
It seems she planned to visit Bangkok on the weekend, and wanted to stay in my apartment with me. Up to this point I’ve been a bit reserved in what I’ve written in the blog about the situation with her. We’ve spent hours in person and on the phone screaming at each other. Nearly every phone call has included her threatening (promising?) not to call me or talk to me anymore. She’s accused me of a lot of bad intentions, and our most recent hour-long scream at session on the mobile phone ended with me telling her that she had lied to me so many times in the past two months that she couldn’t keep them straight anymore.
In short, our relationship has been bitter and nasty since Christmas.
So I was pretty well shocked that she wanted to stay in my room. But, in spite of every time she said she wouldn’t call me anymore, she had. In spite of every bad thing I said to her, she still kept coming back. These girls are tough — Thai guys treat them a lot worse, so a little yelling probably doesn’t seem so bad.
Against my better judgement I agreed that she could sleep in my room on Friday and Saturday nights.
Well, Friday didn’t go well. I offered to buy her dinner, but she rejected every restaurant I suggested. Finally she suggested the Italian place next door and I agreed. On the way down in the lift she got pissed about something (I don’t know what) and when we got to the street she headed the opposite direction. After a few sharp words we ended up eating noodles at an aluminum table on Sukhumvit Road. It was better for my wallet than a steak dinner at Chok Choi, but the atmosphere was pretty tense.
By 9 p.m. we were back in the room and I was asleep in half an hour.
On Saturday morning I got up and dressed for work; I had to go to a 3-hour meeting. She told me that she planned to visit her sister while I was working, and that she wouldn’t be there when I returned in the afternoon. As I walked out the door and headed down in the lift I flashed on a terrible scene. She had the next three hours to search and strip my room of everything valuable. I remembered that a week ago we’d been fighting about money. She told me that she no longer had the gold necklace that I’d given her for her birthday because she had to sell it.
At the time, I didn’t actually believe her — just put it down to manipulative lies. Even if it was true, I didn’t much care.
But now all this took on a different texture.
How stupid was I gonna feel if I came home to an empty room? Duped by a bar girl!? How idiotic would that be?
And my feelings had some basis in experience. When she last stayed with me between Christmas and New Year she took all of the pictures of herself out of my photo album and put them into her bag. I spotted what she’d done and took them all back. She noticed only minutes before leaving, and we had another screaming fight about ownership of the photos. It wasn’t that she didn’t have her own copies — she did — she just didn’t want me to have pictures of her anymore. I won the argument, but this memory was now unsettling.
I had to go to my meeting, so I called the Dude, explained my concerns to him and asked him to visit my room around 10 a.m. and make sure it wasn’t being packed into a pickup truck.
He was dubious, but being a good friend, he agreed.
As it turned out, there was nothing amiss. She’d done exactly as she’d said she would. She visited her sister and returned around 3 or 4 p.m.
Saturday night we went to a movie at MBK (the Disney soon-to-be-forgotten non-classic “Enchanted” which she loved… I fell asleep). We also grabbed a bit of dinner. We were back at my place by 10:30 and I was asleep by 11 p.m.
This morning I was up & out early for another work appointment. I was again stricken with the thought that I was leaving this angry, crazy girl alone in my room with all my stuff for a couple of hours and cursing my stupidity. I closed my eyes, pushed down all thoughts about her stealing everything I owned, and went to my appointment.
She’s a great cook — that was always one of the real positives of having her live with me — so I gaver her a 500 baht note and asked her to go to the grocery store today and to cook lunch for me.
Returning home from my meeting it was like the old days, with the smell of wonderful Thai cooking wafting into the hallway. When I entered my room she was in full stride cooking a delicious lunch for the two of us. The TV was in place, my bankbook undisturbed, and all my worries apparently for nothing. She even gave me 260 baht change from my 500 — something that wasn’t a habit when she lived with me.
It’s Sunday afternoon now. She’s gone to get her hair washed at the salon. She’s asked me if she can stay the night again tonight, before heading home on Monday morning.
What could I say? I agreed. She’s been pleasant and positive for the last 36 hours. No arguments or stupidity, no recriminations or fights. I don’t know quite what to think. She lived with me for ten months last year. We didn’t fight or have problems when she lived here, I just asked her to leave because she slept all the time, didn’t work at all, and drained money out of me with great efficiency. Our problems have all been in the past few weeks.
So when I weigh up a year of happily barfining her from her go go bar, and another ten months of pleasant domestic living against four weeks of fights — mostly over the phone — it’s hard to know what to make of the situation.
I’m still changing apartments next month, but I haven’t decided yet whether to tell her where.
January 27, 2008 at 2:57 pm |
Two questions: Are you moving because of her? If you get back together would you be happy to give up your current sexploits? Perhaps the answers to these questions will point you in the right direction.
January 27, 2008 at 4:15 pm |
Oh, don’t get me wrong… there’s no question of getting back together. In fact, that happened once already. I asked her to move out in May and she did, then came a few days later saying that she wanted to come back. I gave her 5 conditions (get a job, spend less money & a few other things) that she didn’t meet, so I told her to go again, which she did at the end of August.
After that, she moved out of Bangkok and came to visit me occasionally until Christmas, when we had a major argument.
NO WAY is she ever moving in again. In fact, I’m deeply commited to not making the mistake of having a girl live in my apartment again. It was a stupid example of losing sight of the mission statement for moving to Bangkok.
My decision to move to a new apartment is driven 100% by wanting to get away from her control issues. The people who work in and around the building still report to her on my movements, and tell her when, how many and how long girls come to visit me.
The only question in my mind is whether to remain friends with her (which we managed to do for four months after she moved out) or not. If not, I need to cut her off sharply. I’m moving in 5 weeks; I may have to change my phone number as well.
Even so, she was a go go dancer on Soi Cowboy for 6 years, so every time I walk onto the Soi she’ll get a report, no matter what. My saving grace right now is that she doesn’t live in Bangkok anymore so it’s not like she can chase me down in the middle of a go go bar and give me problems.
I guess I’m just encouraged by the fact that she’s seemed fairly normal and friendly this weekend, and not like the crazy bitch that she’d been for the previous four weeks. At the same time, I’m wary of her, as you can see from my concern that she might abscond with my valuables.
January 27, 2008 at 6:28 pm |
As you know, phone numbers, addresses and movements are easily acquired through the Go-Go grapevine. So, is it really worth making these changes when the real problem is you being pestered and aggravated by an ex. If it were me, and I’m glad it’s not, I would change nothing, stay polite but never agree to any visits. Moving and changing your phone number are major ways to allow yourself to be controlled.
January 27, 2008 at 7:02 pm |
Well, the move is happening… new room deposit paid and my furniture already sold to a friend. A prime reason is that her best friend lives directly across the hall from me, so it’s not just the usual bar girl grapevine. Also, the new apartment is much nicer than the current one.
I don’t think I’ll change my phone number anyway, but sometimes the phone calls are annoying if they are too frequent , come at inconvenient times, or if she starts whining about me seeing other women.
I shouldn’t agree to visits, and maybe I won’t in the future. The reason I was happy to have her visit pre-Christmas was that we were getting along well and she was still having sex with me, but I wasn’t paying any cash because she had acquired a new overseas sponsor.
She still has the sponsor but now I’ve told her no sex, so that reason for letting her stay with me is gone.
Again, the problems with her existed for 4 weeks (Christmas to last weekend). The good times lasted for two years before, and this weekend she’s behaving nicely. All I’m really saying is that I’m wondering if the past month was an abberation. It’s not an question that I know the answer to yet.
January 27, 2008 at 10:50 pm |
Sounds like a really stressful relationship. I have an idea… Get a sheet of paper and draw a line down the middle. At the top of the left side, write the heading PROS. At the top of the right side, write the heading CONS. Have at it !
I’m actually part joking AND part serious here.
January 28, 2008 at 11:26 am |
I seriously suggest you dont live in a place where bar girls or the best friend of bar girls live. Or ex-bars girls. My building is 100% non-Thai, except for staff.
BTW did you get to shag her in the 36 hours she was with you? If not what the hell is the point of seeing her?
Just kick her out. She was a bar girl for 6 years so she must be used to it.
January 28, 2008 at 1:52 pm |
My building is 99.9 % farang-free. I much prefer it that way.
But yes, Werewolf, I do not understand why you would possibly still put up with all this bullshit.
January 28, 2008 at 7:02 pm |
Hi WW, you said ‘Thai guys treat them a lot worse’. Is it your impression this is across the board or maybe a class thing?
January 28, 2008 at 11:01 pm |
Just curious: Did you ever ask her what she estimates with how many men she had sex during her six years at the go-go bar?
January 29, 2008 at 10:51 pm |
@ Phoenix: What does it matter? I’m gonna guess roughly 1,000 men, which makes her unmarriable in my book. My limit is 592…
January 29, 2008 at 11:58 pm |
hooboy: I don’t really know the answer, but all you asked for is my impression, so here goes.
I think that across the board Thai men are harder on the women than farang are. Culturally women are told to be subservient here. Men are expected to have sex with as many women as they can afford.
Westerners have been taught to respect women, and to treat them as equals. We’ve generally also learned to be pussy whipped.
Thai men have a very different upbringing.
This is one reason so many Thai women of all classes want a Western man, but I believe that if you want to survive in a relationship with a Thai girl, you need to learn to be a bit more like your grandfather or great-grandfather — King of you castle. You have to be the boss in a way that few Western women would accept these days.
If you can do this, your Thai girl will respect you and be happy. If you can’t, she won’t respect you and you’ll both be unhappy.
I still make mistakes (as detailed in the blog above) but I’ve learned that you can’t let a Thai girl control you.
For everyone else: I wasn’t really trying to solicit advice, but I guess if I invite comments I need to take what I get.
To explain my relationship with this girl would take 20,000 words. Essentially, I spent ten months bar-fining her and loving the sex — going back again and again. I made the mistake of inviting her to live with me, and corrected that mistake in August. For 4 months after that I got free sex whenever she was in town, because she has an overseas sponsor now. In December I started getting irritated with her phone calls and I started picking fights with her. She caught me in a bad mood when I came back from Singapore, and I ended up screaming at her over the phone and hanging up on her. Every converstation for three weeks after turned into a fight.
Now, she seems to be trying to make up again.
So, I had 24 months of happiness and good times with her. Then I had about 6 weeks of grief, that was mainly instigated by me.
Now she seems to be trying to make up again.
Aside from the obvious issue of being a prostitute, she’s not a bad girl. She’s got a good heart, and a child-like innocence. On the downside she’s lazy and spends money quickly. I may or may not continue to be friends with her, but she won’t be living with me again for sure. I also doubt that we’ll have sex again, though I’ll follow the maxim, “never say never” on that point. In my entire life, she’s consistently given me the best sex of any girl I’ve ever known.
So let’s put this one to rest.
I’ll do what I do, and for my own reasons. I’ll write about it when I think it’s interesting.
I’m going to sleep now.
January 30, 2008 at 4:39 am |
JB: I was asking for a number estimate not a judgement about that number. Would just be interesting if such a topic is discussed in a relationship with a (former) prostitute or not and what such a woman might be willing to tell about numbers. If not this particular girl has talked about it, maybe an other.
January 30, 2008 at 2:58 pm |
@hooboy: I’d also add the point that if we’re talking about gogo girls, then the kind of Thai men who’d consider a dark-skinned hooker who sleeps with foreigners to be suitable girlfriend material are, uh, none too pleasant. Same as in most countries, I’d suggest. So the stats are a little skewed there…
January 31, 2008 at 1:26 pm |
i guess its the degree of skew that i wonder at. You’d expect lowlife men to treat women shitfully anywhere, but how deep does that permeate the general Thai psyche? Seems sometimes Buddha in LOS is more a god of luck and charms than a compassion role model? Is it arseholes all the way up?
February 2, 2008 at 7:34 pm |
@TAFKABBB – What if she was a pale skinned “model” hooker that worked at Poseidon. Do you think she’d be treated differently?
February 2, 2008 at 7:58 pm |
@anon: Yes, to a certain extent. Poseidon markets to an Asian clientele, so the girls working there tend to be taller and paler. Both are traits that go down well with Thai men. And whilst the girls there do sometimes sleep with farangs, they’re a minority (and have to pay a surcharge).
February 2, 2008 at 8:14 pm |
@TAFKABBB – Yes I know that but I was elaborating on hooboy’s original question – “if Thai guys treat them a lot worse than WW treated his GF?”
You said: “I’d also add the point that if we’re talking about gogo girls, then the kind of Thai men who’d consider a dark-skinned hooker who sleeps with foreigners to be suitable girlfriend material are, uh, none too pleasant.”
Both Poseidon and gogo/beer bar girls are hookers. Then what kind of Thai men would consider a pale skinned hooker to be suitable material?
February 3, 2008 at 3:40 pm |
@anon: Sure. I was pointing out that dark skin, working as a hooker and sleeping predominantly with farangs are three traits that most Thai guys would not consider attractive!
A taller, paler girl who works as a hooker and sleeps predominantly with Asians is still a hooker, but slightly further up from the bottom of the barrel! So she probably has a slightly wider, but still limited, range of potential boyfriends. More likely to be “rescued” and set up as a “mia noi” than taken on as a girlfriend though, which is a different kettle of fish altogether.
Splitting hairs really – across the world, most clear-thinking men wouldn’t even consider attempting a serious relationship a hooker. Somehow, Thailand is different. I’m still working on why…
February 3, 2008 at 6:58 pm |
“across the world, most clear-thinking men wouldn’t even consider attempting a serious relationship a hooker. Somehow, Thailand is different. I’m still working on why…”
@TAFKABBB – it’s simple really. When was the last time you hopped on the BTS or cruised around Sukhumvit? Have you seen the scummy Star Wars looking muthaf*ckers lurking around Bangkok?
There is nowhere else in the developed world would that attractive Asian women would give any of them a chance much less a serious relationship. In the end, it all comes down to their own happiness. Being with a hooker is better than being alone is it not?
February 8, 2008 at 5:53 pm |
If you want to keep your sanity, you have to think like a Thai man, which is somewhat similar to how your Dad or Grandad thought: there are 2 kinds of women; those you marry and those you don’t.
February 28, 2008 at 2:22 pm |
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